Leading with Curiosity: Building Intentional Relationships in Your Business and Personal Life with Danielle Marshall

Curiosity is one of the most important tools we have for creating deeper connection, healthier culture, and more aligned leadership. When we slow down enough to notice and question our unconscious assumptions, we open the door to new possibilities. This, in turn, expands our sense of hope and improves our ability to collaborate with others. In this conversation, we explore how organizational culture is shaped, how we shape our personal relationships, and the role curiosity plays in shifting limiting patterns in both areas. You’ll walk away with practical ways to listen differently, ask better questions, and align your actions with the human you most want to be.

In this episode of Mindset Unlimited, I invited Danielle Marshall to join me in a conversation about why leading with curiosity is key to intentionally cultivating what you want in your business and personal life.

Some of what we talk about in this episode includes:

• What you need to build a strong organizational culture
• Simple curiosity supporting questions that strengthen relationships in personal and professional life.
• Recognizing and reframing limiting beliefs that keep you from your potential
• Practical ways to slow down, reduce assumptions, and create more intentional connections.

Thanks for listening! 

Have thoughts on this episode? Send me a voice memo: https://www.speakpipe.com/MindsetUnlimited

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This podcast was produced by Valerie Friedlander Coaching

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Transcript

Valerie Friedlander: 0:00

Hello, my friends and welcome to another

episode of Mindset, Unlimited: 0:02

Mindset tips, tools and inspiration for women in a time of change. I'm your host. Valerie Friedlander, ICF certified coach, sociologist, intersectional feminist artist, mom and nerd. Today we are talking about leading with curiosity, building intentional relationships in your business and personal life. I talk a lot about curiosity, but I realize that I have no episodes where that is the focus. It's like integrated in everything, because it's such a critical component of everything, but I haven't actually really focused in on it, and as we head to the end of another calendar year, it is a popular time to talk about reflecting on where we've been over the course of the year, where we are now, and where we would like to go in the new year. And curiosity is key for that reflection, it's key to support us in thinking expansively, in getting really intentional, but doing it in a way that is not about beating ourselves up, but supportive of what we want to create. And so this episode is a lot about using curiosity to engage this topic of curiosity and how it builds relationships and cultures and all of the things. I invited my colleague, Danielle Marshall, who is an equity strategist, executive coach and host of unpacked culture Chronicles, a podcast exploring how curiosity can bridge cultural divides and bring people closer across differences. With more than 25 years in the nonprofit sector Spanning Leadership, program development and organizational strategy, Danielle has dedicated her career to challenging assumptions, shifting narratives and fostering meaningful change as a sought after coach and facilitator, she partners with leaders to cultivate inclusive workspaces, deepen cross cultural understanding and design strategies that drive both equity and impact. Her work is grounded in the belief that transformation begins with conversation, but it's what happens next that truly matters. When we replace judgment with curiosity, we don't just open the door to dialog. We lay the foundation for deeper understanding, stronger relationships and meaningful action. Some of what Danielle and I talk about in this episode include what you need to build a strong organizational culture, simple curiosity, supporting questions that strengthen relationships in personal and professional life, recognizing and reframing, limiting beliefs that keep you from your potential, practical ways to slow down, reduce assumptions and create more intentional connections. There is so much in this episode. We had such a good time chatting about all the things. I know you're going to love it. So now without further ado, let's get started. Welcome, Danielle. I'm so excited to have you on mindset unlimited.

Danielle Marshall: 3:24

Thank you, Valerie. I've been looking forward to this. I can't wait to dive into the conversation.

Valerie Friedlander: 3:28

Yes, we had such a fabulous conversation several months ago, and I was like, I gotta have her on. We gotta talk about all the things. So before we get started, why don't you introduce yourself just a little bit to the audience? Sure.

Danielle Marshall: 3:47

So Danielle Marshall, I am an equity strategist and executive coach, and primarily I find myself working with a lot of nonprofits. That is my background, originally and organizational leaders. So directors C suite, basically people who are really looking to build healthy cultures in their organization, but also want to focus on all of the identities that we individually bring in as part of their inclusion strategies.

Valerie Friedlander: 4:16

Love it. Okay. So first question is, what is a limit that you took for granted, that you have since unlearned?

Danielle Marshall: 4:26

I think this is such a powerful question. I think the the initial thing, and quite frankly, one that I still have to remind myself about today, is that I am enough. I think so many of us take that for granted that we are lacking in some way, shape or form. You know, I am not smart enough, I'm not tall enough, pretty enough, funny enough, dot, dot, dot. That sometimes we just have to be okay being who we are in that moment and realizing we are fully functional people. And that is, in fact. Not enough. It is. We're worthy already.

Valerie Friedlander: 5:04

Yeah, yeah. That is so important, and so many of us need to constantly remind ourselves or be reminded of that, because that's such the programming in a society where the culture of the overall society is on fitting in versus belonging. Absolutely so. I think that moves us really nicely into our topic of the cultures of our spaces and what we're bringing in. One of the things that you say in your podcast is that we get the culture we intentionally plan for, or we get the culture that emerges in the absence of that intention. And I think people forget to be intentional about it, because we think that when we have certain conscious values, we come in. We especially, you know, nonprofits, mission driven organizations come in thinking that their passion around the particular mission is what will set the tone, is what will create the culture. And we don't account for the fact that we are swimming in overall waters that push us all to fit in and not actually to be you know, say, bring your full self to work. We're not conditioned to be our full selves because we have learned that it isn't safe to do that at various levels and to various levels of safety depending on our social occasion. In this society, it is not safe, but ultimately, especially if the more marginalized you are in the society, the less safe it is. But we've all been conditioned to fit in with the dynamics of the space that we're occupying, and not just to be ourselves, because we don't, we don't even understand what belonging is, and so naturally, that unintentional culture is going to be developed. I would love to know, what do you notice with that? And maybe, actually, before we even do that, could you share a little bit about what is a culture? Because I'm using this word, and I realize we haven't defined it,

Danielle Marshall: 7:16

Yeah, oh, I love that. I'm so glad that we said that up front. So when I think about culture, and I'm going to give a pretty basic definition for listeners. It is the norms, the behaviors, the patterns, right, the values that we bring in as a particular group. And so you could apply that to cultures, when it comes to maybe the region that you grew up in your identities, but certainly also workspace cultures. And when I think of another way to define culture at work, it is simply how we do things around here and to the point around we get that culture that we inherit, or the one that just sort of manifest. That is the big driver. It's like we this is how we do things, right? And there, there have been so many instances where people will just say, Well, you know, you know, this is the way we've always done it, right? That is speaking to your culture. It's speaking to how decisions get made. It's speaking to risk appetite, or how we handle change, all of those things become inherently a part of one's organizational culture.

Valerie Friedlander: 8:27

Yeah, and it's so that is an interesting thing to think about. Of like, this is how we do things. It pulls forward for me, the whole personality, like when we think about individuals, personality and culture, almost so like, culture is the group, personality is the individual is that? Would you say that's a...

Danielle Marshall: 8:51

I would actually, I, yes, I would separate those two out. Because here's the thing, you can belong to a cultural group and still not adhere to the norms of said culture, because you are your own individual. And so I think in a lot of cases, to your point, personality does shine through in those moments. Because while it might be normal in my culture, and for listeners right now that cannot see me, I am talking with my hands, that is very cultural. And there may be someone else who has the same cultural upbringing as I do, but very different individual who's like, you're Danielle. You're distracting me because your hands are moving so much while you're talking, right? They're not going to adhere to that norm. Yeah.

Valerie Friedlander: 9:37

So when I when I was mentioning the idea of personality, one of the things that comes forward, like people do these personality assessments, and when I'm working with them, they've taken a personality assessment. Oh, well, this is just the way I am. I am just whatever the Myers Briggs is, or Enneagram or astrological sign or whatever. This is just how I am. And they. Think it's so fixed when it's something that can be shifted. And I'm sure you've seen this in organizations that I've talked to a lot of people who work for organizations, who are running into, well, my boss would never want to talk to somebody about the culture of our workplace, because, you know, they're the ones creating it, and they don't think there's any problem here, or any or or don't not even necessarily a problem, but like something that could be changed. Because this is just how we do things, right? This is just how I am, and this is just how we do things.

Danielle Marshall: 10:39

Yeah, to those folks, I would say, if you argue for your limitations, you 100% get to keep them. Ooh. The thing is, oftentimes, when people call folks like myself into organizations, and I'm sure even you in your coaching work, it is because they have identified some need for change, right? Like there's some desired outcome they have yet to achieve. But if we get stuck in this pattern of, well, this is the way we do things, we can't change. We don't have the expertise, or whatever the limitation is that will remain true. The question for me is, how can we get there? What else might be true in this instance, right? So that we can start to lean on curiosity as an exploratory tool in that moment, maybe you don't, in fact, have the right folks on the team yet, or there is some real barrier, but what I'm interested in is figuring out how we dismantle that barrier in order to get to said desired goal, instead of centering the limitation up front.

Valerie Friedlander: 11:46

Yeah. So what I'm hearing is, if you're just focused on this is just the way it is, and it's just this locked in thing, you're not going to change. But if you bring in some curiosity, you open the door to possibility. And I think I do wonder. A lot of times people shut down possibilities because possibilities feel scary. It's like the unknown, like, well, this is what I know, but I don't know what that is like. I could walk through into that possibility and everything could fall apart.

Danielle Marshall: 12:19

It could but it also might be the best day of your life. You might find yourself open to new opportunities in general, because you simply open that first door. There are so many times that I can think back in the course of my life where just because I tried something different, it led me on this fantastical journey, if you will, where I was rewarded, where I had new opportunities, where I met some really amazing people, all because I said yes.

Valerie Friedlander: 12:50

Do you have a favorite story about doing that?

Danielle Marshall: 12:53

Oh my gosh, I think it is. Actually I will tell this story. So I have a group of women in my circle. I call them my squad, and they're all other entrepreneurs. And for a very, very long time, like I've had friends, you know, all of my life, but I was looking for a specific set of friends, if you will, and that was entrepreneurs, particularly in this group. It's all women of color as well, because I wanted to be able to talk to folks who I could relate to, who might be going through similar challenges. And one of the things that I did, and people thought I was nuts when I first did this, is I wrote out a position description for who I want it to have in my circle. I love that, right? Yeah, because I couldn't find anyone. I'm looking all around, and I'm like, where these other folks seem to have, like, really amazing communities. I was like, I'm not seeing this now. I know that sounds really nerdy and like maybe over the top, because people are probably like a position description, but I don't want you to think about this as like a two page document. It was literally a paragraph. Who are you as a person? Right? Like, I was looking for people who were entrepreneurs, that were women, that were goal oriented, who also could take themselves, you know, a little lightly, and that everything wasn't going to be serious all the time. I wanted folks that were open to both giving and receiving feedback, because that was the nature of this community that I wanted to develop. And I had been in several groups, networking groups, and so I was sort of watching the landscape, and I'm listening to how people are speaking, how they're interacting with one another. And every once in a while I would identify someone, and I'm like, Hmm, I really like how this person thinks. Or in one case, there was a woman who was just so brilliant, she made me Shut up. I was like, oh, Danielle, you should be listening right now, clearly, because you have so much to learn from this other individual. So I share all of that to say what I ended up doing with this position description is I emailed it to these individuals, and it was seven of us at the time, and I said, Here is the type of people, person that I'm looking to bring into this group. Would you be interested? And every last. Last person that I emailed said yes, and we were able to get together. And I would say, at least, for a solid year, we were meeting regularly, we were talking, and yes, it was about business, but it also became about friendships. Like when I know about what's happening with your kids and your spouse and you know life, who's moving all of these things, we're celebrating each other together. We are literally sitting there, holding space when people are in tears. It was amazing now that group over time, because it's been a couple of years since I first started it, it's more, you know, we've added some people. Some folks have dropped out because life changes, but because I was willing to both be curious and challenge this notion of I can't find friends, I can't find anyone like me. I was able to step out and do something pretty amazing. And the best comment I got from all of this is one of the the women in the group said to me, she's like, how did you know that we needed each other? I was like, Oh, I'm so glad you find value in that. But I really did this for me. I am so happy though, that we collectively are benefiting.

Valerie Friedlander: 16:07

Yeah, yeah. Well, that actually made a lot of sense to me to write out what you're looking for, because it focuses what you decide means the idea of like a vision board, or like a mission statement, or vision statement, or any of those things. It's like you're you're clarifying for yourself outside of your own head. This is what I want. So no, it's the idea where your focus goes. Your attention flows. Yes, right? So like I said, this is what I'm looking for, and so you're tuned into this is what I want. So that kind of loops us around to this idea of, okay, often when I'm working with somebody, we'll start with that visioning, what do you want, right? So, like your example, writing out clearly, this is what I want, this is what I'm looking for, and pulling away from the this is what I don't want, yes, right? Because so often we're like, Well, I don't want this, and then we're focused on what we don't want instead of what we do want. So this is what I want. And I find even when you get something that looks different than you imagined it to look if it has the essence of what you wanted, like, this is what I want and why I want it, right? I want this, like you're saying, for value for for me, there's a purpose behind what you wanted. So, so where I'm trying to go with that is people start businesses to do that, like I have this mission, I have this thing that I want to do, and that rides for a certain amount of time. I know that you're supposed to like review your vision statement every so often, because we change, we evolve, and our organizations change and evolve so but we also have all these internalized values that aren't that kind of rub up against our conscious or like, the values that we've chosen to have, and we have these unconscious, like, like you mentioned, the cultural like, this is just what we do. I'm automatically doing it. I'm not even thinking about it. So getting clear on what we want, getting clear on what those are, setting the mission statement. But when you've been doing it for a while, we get into habits and we forget that we can still do that. And this episode's coming out towards the end of the year, and I think it's a wonderful time to invite people to revisit some of those things. And I'm hearing, you know, get curious, what would you suggest that people do if they want to engage intentionally creating the culture, thinking about the behaviors, the patterns, the values, the norms of their environment? Yeah, probably mostly for business owners. But even, I mean, I think all of these things can be totally applicable to

Danielle Marshall: 19:05

To individuals as well. Absolutely. Yeah, so I am appreciating that you started with this idea of, you know, where do we want to go? Right? Like, what? What is that vision that we have for ourselves? Because I think that can be actually both grounding and, quite frankly, a lot of fun for people. So like, if we said there's no restrictions, it's not monetary it's not human capacity, any of those things. What would you want to be true? It gives people a reason to dream, to be hopeful about the future. And I think especially in the space that we're in now. We need hope. We need to feel like we have some kind of agency to design this world that we ideally want to live in, whether that happens to be in a work setting, our family dynamics and so forth. But beyond even asking this question of sort of we, what do we want to be true? Yeah. I am also now asking people about the realities of today, what is true today, and so that could be anything from if I'm thinking about organizations like, how well are we doing towards our business goals? How do we treat one another when we think about culture? Do Do we all have the same idea of what culture is in this organization, are some people benefiting and others being disadvantaged? Like there's so many questions to dive into, to really just be able to surface what is happening. And I think that there are opportunities in organizations to do this, both at the individual level and also at the team level. And the reason I say that is as individuals, sometimes we just need time to process what is true. For me may not be true for the the organization at large, right? My experiences in here could look slightly different. My hopes and dreams for the company could look slightly different. And so I want to be able to give people time to reflect in that way. But now I also want to bring it back to the full group, so that we have an opportunity to bounce ideas off of one another. And typically, what I see in those spaces is, you know, someone will start talking, and another person's like, Oh, I've noticed that too. But here's this other way, this little nuance detail that I want to add to this, or I wonder about this, right? And so now we have a much more robust conversation that's going on, because it is the individual to sort of the larger ecosystem of that organizational culture that we're getting to sort of really examine. And if you want it to take it another layer, it's like, well, what do our partners in the community, think our vendors, that maybe the clients we serve. There's lots of ways that we can sort of internalize the where are we moment.

Valerie Friedlander: 21:48

Do you have practices like so say somebody wants to do this individually, like, I love the you know, think about this as individuals, come together as an organization and engage these questions and say, we take that and we bring it into our friend group or even our family gatherings. What would it look like? First, what would it look like to engage that in those spaces? And what obstacles do you see with that?

Danielle Marshall: 22:18

So I want to make sure I'm understanding your question here. So when you say, engage in those spaces, what is your end goal?

Valerie Friedlander: 22:25

Good question. One thing that kind of brings us forward is that idea of stepping into the discomfort you talk about leadership includes listening differently, especially when it's uncomfortable and there's a lot of nuance here. I think, you know, I talk a lot about boundaries, so I don't necessarily want to get into unsafety, right? Like if you have people in your life, family in your life, that are unsafe, this isn't necessarily to engage those. But if you have, maybe it's traditions, maybe it's patterns of when we get together, we're heading into a new year. What? How will I show up in my friend group, like we're just but I'll give myself as an example. I am terrible at getting together with my friends. I love them dearly. When we get together, we could spend hours together and chat, but scheduling it, getting together. So if I were to be like, I want to be more intentional about showing up with my friends, or when I want to prioritize like, whatever it is, what you know, they're just the idea of wanting to change patterns in the new year with the habits and ways we typically do things with people in our life.

Danielle Marshall: 23:43

Okay, so let me answer this with something that's probably going to be quite controversial, right? The first time that I heard this, I was like, That is awful. Who would do this? And now, now I am a regular practitioner of this, and to the question that you asked, I now hold an annual friend audit. Okay? At the end of this audit, not everybody makes the cut, okay? And so initially, when I heard about this, I was again, like, who does this? Like, that seems so cutthroat. But when it was framed to me, certain questions started to emerge about, like, who's in your circle of friends, right? Are these people who energize you, or are they depleting you? Are they people that are givers, or are they takers? Right? So, like, really beginning to think about all the energy that you put into a relationship dynamic. We're all so like at capacity when it comes to time. The world has never moved as fast as it's moving now. And so if to the point that you just made you want to spend more time with people, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say you probably don't want to spend time with everyone.

Valerie Friedlander: 24:57

Yeah. I mean, that's that's true. Or, or I don't want to in the same way, right? Like, I don't necessarily want to spend the same way or kind of time, like, it's different shapes with different people based on what my capacity is and what their capacity is.

Danielle Marshall: 25:15

Absolutely true. And there are probably people you have encountered, as I'm sure most listeners have, that you're like, you know, if I never connect with that person again, I will be okay, right? Like, it's, it is just the nature of this. And so when I do the friendship audit, I'm asking myself questions. And it is not to just eliminate people off the top, but it's really asking myself, like, is this person moving in a direction that I value, that I can see myself being part of, or are we growing apart? And I think that level of honesty with ourselves means we can have richer relationships with the people we choose to keep in our world.

Valerie Friedlander: 25:55

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense to take that intentional time. I think that's a that's a big piece of what I'm hearing invited in all of this is to take that intentional time to really look at what is what is true. Like you said, what is true for me right now, I'll often say, like, what's working, what's not working, but I really like that question of what is true. I actually, you know, as we're saying, that I had someone respond to a newsletter not too long ago. Then I sent out, and she mentioned how she was feeling really overwhelmed by the question of, how are you and like, that was just that question. Was like, No, again, it's, it doesn't work. That question doesn't work. And she, and I can't remember if it was she and her colleagues or friends, or maybe both, like the one, the colleagues that are friends, maybe had started asking each other what's real, instead of, how are you and that anyway, that that question that you were asking of like, what is true today. What I liked about that idea of like, what's real has to do with taking a minute to actually check in, not in the overwhelming like, how are you but what's what's real right now?

Danielle Marshall: 27:14

Yeah, I have such a deep appreciation, and it's funny that you picked up on that particular thing, because when we got on our call today, I asked you how, yeah, and when I asked that, it is because I actually care, in this instance, to know the answer. We don't always do that. Sometimes it's simply just a formality. It is a greeting that we give people. But I have also made a pivot in how I ask questions when I check in with people, depending on what the dynamics are, I've kind of moved to and now this is my if I'm networking, I always ask this question, what's been the best five minutes of your day today? And it's been so fun to hear what comes up for people, because I think one, it's unexpected, but two, it allows a level of like, maybe freedom for people to just say whatever it is. Like, one day, I was at a it was actually at a fundraiser, and someone told me their daughter just got accepted into her dream college, and someone else told me they had won a major award in their sector. And so I'm like, I would have never known these things. And so it gave me an opportunity to one celebrate with them. But I just think at a time where there's so much just heaviness in the world, being able to also really figure out what lights people up, what is real for them, whether you want to take it like real meaning, like, Hey, give me everything you're not going to do that with every person, or if you want to focus on something that is like, uplifting and that you get to celebrate like, I think there's so many ways we can ask questions and really build better connections than just using your standard, Hey, how are you what's going on?

Valerie Friedlander: 28:51

Yeah, well, and that's one of the things that is encouraged with kids, is, instead of saying, How is your day? Like asking better questions. Better questions get more interesting answers, though, all right, I try not to, like, give the judgey language of like, better questions, but like more curious questions, more specific questions.

Danielle Marshall: 29:08

Yeah. And even with that, you have to get creative. Because I asked my daughter the other day, what did you learn at school today, right? Because I didn't want to say, how was your day? What did you learn? And she's like, nothing, yeah. So that now I'm like, on my toes, and I have to find a different way and but I mentioned that because sometimes when you offer up a question out of curiosity, you don't know how the other person is going to receive it, how they're going to take it, but I don't feel off put by it. I just ask a different question.

Valerie Friedlander: 29:37

Yeah, yeah. So the perfectionist in me hears what was the best five minutes of your day? And I'm like, I don't know.. The best? The best? Well, I mean, drinking my first sip of coffee was good, but was it the best, or was it something, you know.

Danielle Marshall: 29:56

That's funny.

Valerie Friedlander: 29:59

Yeah, again, like you said, depends on who you're talking to. I mean, it might be an obvious best, like, something awesome might have happened, but it could be like, a pretty basic day. Like I asked my my son, what was your favorite part of your day today? It's inevitably, recess. It's always recess. Like it's that's gonna be the answer every day. It speaks to how kids really do need to play and run around, but that's a whole nother conversation. And so that's the first thing that comes up. But the other thing that that I does make me think of is the difference of like, what questions we ask, and you talk a lot about curiosity, and asking a more open, curious question will always invite somebody to think a little bit more than they would with a closed yes or no question. One of the things as a coach, you know, we learn certain ways to ask questions and how to ask curious questions, like Why questions tend to feel judgy, how questions create overwhelm, what questions tend to be more open, but I am. I would love to know a little bit about what questions or what ways that you help people engage more curiosity, like when they haven't gone through a training to be a coach, but like to to show up like you mentioned, getting people together to talk about how things are going in a workplace as an example, and having that conversation, I could see that going a variety of ways. If someone didn't have the skills like hadn't hired someone like you to help them facilitate that kind of conversation, people tend to fall back into their patterns, and if an organization has unintentionally developed a culture where people aren't necessarily feeling open. What helps them show up to that curiosity or bring in more curiosity?

Danielle Marshall: 31:56

Yeah, I I always start with goals no matter what, and so when I say that to people, like, it could be an organizational goal, which is a very detailed goal, or it could be something more personal, you know, if you were talking about family or friends, like, I want to spend more time with people. I want to invite that into the conversation, because now it gives me something to be more curious about. So if you say to me, you know, I want to spend more time with my family and friends. Okay, great. What's important to you about them, right? And so as we start to dive into that, that naturally now segues off into different things, like maybe when I was growing up, we didn't have a lot of time to spend together. I'm really wanting to cultivate that in my family today. Wow. So what activities have you done to bring that to life? Already, right? It's a very natural segue.

Valerie Friedlander: 32:50

Okay, so I'm seeing the theme here, and that is knowing what you want, the goals, what's it and why? What's important to you about that goal, and then even just asking questions everywhere, right? Like, not just, okay, I have the answer and now we're stopping. But like, what question could I ask about that?

Danielle Marshall: 33:17

What else might be true?

Valerie Friedlander: 33:18

Yeah, what else might be true? I love that question too.

Danielle Marshall: 33:21

So that is probably my top question that I like to ask people and myself. So like, that's the other thing I want to be really clear about coaches. Coach ourselves, because we can get stuck in our own heads at time. But if I ask this question of what else might be true, it opens up so many doors. So even if I would, it was a pretty benign issue we're talking about. And I say, you know, I'm just, you know, I make a clear definitive like, this is my favorite candy. Like, well, what else might be true about this? Or, do you like other things? Do you know? Are there other brands you like? I could, I could spend some time in that space. But I also find the What else might be true question to be really helpful when people have limiting beliefs. So where we are in the world, people have a lot of judgments about other people right now.

Valerie Friedlander: 34:10

I had no idea. I'm sorry,

Danielle Marshall: 34:12

Amazing, huh? But this idea of what else might be true becomes really important to me when someone says something along the lines of, you know, how they are, yeah, they always do this thing. And I'm like, do they What else might be true, right? Is this a case of always, or is it a, you know, is it a pattern and sometimes it is, or is this something that you had one experience around, and you've now drawn some pretty definitive conclusions for yourself. What else might be true? Yeah, and even if I were to apply that in an organizational setting, something as simple as this individual came to work today and they were late, there's always going. Be someone at the company who says, Oh, they just don't even care. They're not responsible. They don't respect my time, right? Fill in the blank here, and then I have to ask what else might be true, because we don't know. They could have had a sick pet at home that they found themselves cleaning up after this morning. They could have gotten a flat tire on the highway. They could have just maybe overslept because they were up all night, right? They were working on a big project. I don't know, until I ask you, yeah. And so avoiding the tendency, I think, to simply make assumptions by leaning into curiosity and as I say that again, I will admit, humbly, I am still practicing. Because there are days where the assumption is such a driving force, it is hard to put it down. And then I have to say, Danielle, what else could be true?

Valerie Friedlander: 35:56

Yeah, well, and I think that's true for all of us. The more rushed we are, the more likely we're going to automatically fill in the blank, because it's easier and faster, we are able to do things quicker, when we can just fill the blank in and then act accordingly, instead of taking the time to pause and check in and ask the questions. And so there's a lot of push to not do that. And so you mentioned how important hope, like we need hope right now. And one of the things that someone said recently, and I talked about in the earlier podcast, is about how hope is a practice. And what is really striking me right now in this conversation, is how even just slowing down to ask questions opens up more access to possibilities which is intrinsically tied to hope.

Danielle Marshall: 36:56

Yes, 100% right. It is very difficult to have hope when you don't see a possible pathway forward and sometimes in life. And I would say this is one of those moments, it's hard to see what that pathway is, but if you ask enough questions to enough people, you're going to get other ideas. How could we tackle this? What else might be true, right? Even understanding what's important to another person will now train your eyes and your lens on something you probably weren't attending to before, because it wasn't your priority, but it is certainly theirs. And so from that, not to say that we're going to address everything that we learn through this path of curiosity, but generally, you're able to pick up enough threads that you're like, I see something emerging that wasn't there for me yesterday.

Valerie Friedlander: 37:49

Yeah. So knowing that we are heading into closing out what has been a extraordinarily difficult year, I think I would love to invite listeners to engage something engage some of these questions as you close out the year, to give yourself a little bit of space to close out this year. And I'm wondering, Danielle, would you give folks two things? One, let everybody know where they can find you, and then two, I know you have something on your website about helping people show up your curiosity playbook. Would you share what you would hope people would step into as they close their year out.

Danielle Marshall: 38:45

Yeah, so the first thing that I'm going to say, and this is slightly disconnected from what you said, but also what I would hope for them...

Valerie Friedlander: 38:52

Yeah.

Danielle Marshall: 38:53

Is to really take stock of who you want to be in this world, right? If, again, there are no limits. There are no restrictions. How do I want to show up? What is the legacy I seek to leave behind? If you can have that quiet moment of reflection with yourself, this is part of your personal brand, we can now begin to ask ourselves questions around, how often am I actually stepping into this vision I have for myself. How do my behaviors align with this vision I have? And if we're to be really honest, what behaviors hinder me from stepping into this vision? We are so quick right now to put blame on other people and to point fingers. This is a moment to look in the mirror and say, am I actually being the type of human that I most desire to be? So that is that answer.

Valerie Friedlander: 39:54

Yes. Thank you.

Danielle Marshall: 39:55

Folks can find me... You can find me on LinkedIn, at Danielle Marshall. You can go to my website, which is www.culture-principles.com, and I'm sure that'll be in the show. It sure will, yeah. So those are the best ways to find me, or culture principles on Instagram as well. And you have a podcast. I do have a podcast, so I would love for you to come in and follow us over there or listen to an episode or two. So my podcast is called Unpacked Culture Chronicles. And what we are exploring in this podcast are cultural similarities and differences and how we begin to bridge across them.

Valerie Friedlander: 40:37

I love it, yes. So we've lightly touched on a number of things, and so that is a great place to go even deeper on all of these things with Danielle. So I invite everybody to check those links out in the show notes as well as I will have a link to your curiosity playbook so people can access that as well.

Danielle Marshall: 40:57

Yeah, can I put one last plug in for that playbook? Absolutely So for folks who are interested in having difficult conversations, hard conversations, and are seeking ways to one answer some of these questions, like, what are the questions I should be asking? Number one, I developed a playbook for you that is going to help you ground yourself before the conversation. Think about some of the languaging you can use in the middle of the conversation. But also, and I think very importantly, is how do we close the conversation with care so that we remain in right relationship with one another?

Valerie Friedlander: 41:34

I love it. That's fabulous. So yes, there will be a link for that in the show notes, and then. Thank you so much. I love to wrap up with two questions, first being, what does it mean to you to be unlimited?

Danielle Marshall: 41:50

It is freedom. Unlimited is freedom. It is freedom of choice, of how to show up in the world. It is freedom to change your mind. Folks, you do not have to get locked into one belief system. You are welcome to change your mind. These are things that represent, I think, unlimitedness. To me.

Valerie Friedlander: 42:06

Yeah, awesome. And what song do you listen to when you want to evoke that unlimited feeling?

Danielle Marshall: 42:15

Yeah, there is a song Not Your Average Girl, by India Arie.

Valerie Friedlander: 42:21

Oh, yeah.

Danielle Marshall: 42:21

I really, really like that, because she leans so much into I am. I am simply who I am, and I'm beautiful and I am wise and I am all the things, right? I am enough,

Valerie Friedlander: 42:31

Yes, yeah. I love it. Awesome. Thank you again, Danielle, for joining me. I just love this conversation.

Danielle Marshall: 42:39

Yeah, Valerie, thanks so much. I love you as a host, this was a wonderful conversation. Thank you.

Valerie Friedlander: 42:44

Thank you so much for listening. I really appreciate you being here, and I hope that you enjoyed this conversation as much as I did. Just a reminder to check out the show notes for links to all the things, and if you are looking for support to enter the new year with more intentionality, to reflect on where you've been, to choose how you want to move forward, building goals, building a strategic plan, developing a vision aligning with your values. All of those things are things that I help my clients with, and if you would like to explore what coaching together would look like in the new year, please grab a spot on my calendar. There's a link to sign up for an exploration call, and I'd love to talk with you. There's one more episode left in this season of mindset Unlimited, so keep your eye out for that, and I will talk to you all next time.