Talking to Your Partner About Internalized Patriarchy

Talking to your partner about internalized patriarchy is easy to put off (especially when he seems “better than most”). But if you’re feeling increasingly frustrated by how it shows up in shared routines, the mental load, and emotional labor, it’s time to do more than just commiserate with friends. In this episode, we’ll explore how those “small” frustrations connect to sacred rage, how to recognize your own internalized norms, and how to resource yourself and set boundaries. You’ll walk away with language and tools to invite your partner into a collaborative, honest conversation about changing the dynamics in your home.

Some of what I explore in this episode includes:

• Recognizing your part and being willing to change
• Stop minimizing emotions and understanding sacred rage
• Resourcing yourself and setting boundaries
• Ways to invite a conversation and initiate change

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Transcript

Valerie Friedlander: 0:08

Hello, my friends, and welcome to another

episode of Mindset Unlimited: 0:10

Mindset Tips, Tools, and Inspiration for Women in a Time of Change. I'm your host, Valerie Friedlander, ICF certified coach, intersectional feminist sociologist, artist, mom, and nerd. Today we are talking about how to talk to your partner about internalized patriarchy. This has come up several places. Basically, how it's coming up is that I'm talking to women about life, and at some point in the conversation, they say, I've got a good guy, and yet I see these dynamics showing up in my life and in our home, and it's really frustrating, and I don't, I just don't deal with it. I just kind of brush it aside, I just kind of focus and do the thing, but it has an impact, and that's the thing that I think is really important to remember, is that these things, they erode the relationship when you avoid them, and this is not to knock avoiding it, it's like it's a small issue, like I don't.. there are so many other things that are going on that are much bigger, and I just.. I don't want to deal with that one, and I get it, and I think that's totally understandable, depending on what you have going on, that is really a reasonable response, and yet it's something that is underlying and eroding the relationship, and every time it happens it's a little erosion on the relationship, and on top of that, with everything happening in the world, and the things that we are seeing going on, the erosion of women's rights, the manosphere, the CNN article that just came out showing us this site, I'm not going to get too far into it, because again, I try and keep these available for you to be able to listen to, even if your kids are around, so assuming you have kids. But anyway, I'll link it in the show notes, and you can go look at it if you want. If you're not familiar with just some major issues, the Epstein files, like all of these things, where it's really bringing to light the harms being done that have been done for so long, and I think it's important to know that those little, those little things in our life, and I did air quotes for those of you who are listening, and when we hear about those things, and then we have those little things happen at home, you start to feel the relationship between them, and so then it's a bigger erosion, and it's, it's like, I don't want to make a big deal out of it, you know, why, why are you making a big deal out of something so small, but it is a big deal, and it hits on something, and this is something that came up in a conversation recently, and it was one of those, like, I'll be in conversations, and I won't have connected dots until I'm in this conversation, and I'm, I'm present, and holding space, and I hear these things, and suddenly it's like this, this is what's happening here, and so this has come up recently in a couple places, actually, but one that really hit hard for me, which was hearing the I'm angry, well, it's not really anger, it's frustration, all these little frustrations, right? Like I was talking about, and I'm listening, and I'm thinking, this is not - this is not frustration. One, a lot of times we minimize anger because we're not allowed to be angry, right? Anger puts labels on us, especially if you are a woman of a global majority, and you have even more label added on to your anger, like, oh, we can't be angry, so I'm just frustrated, and I think in these instances it's more, it's not even just a minimization of, like, I'm angry now, I'm frustrated. It's a collective experience, so it's not a personal minimization. It's what's happening. We don't just need to expand it and like own our anger. It's recognizing that it's happening. Into a collective experience, there's so much happening, and there is a rage, and the term sacred rage is is used, and I think it's that injustice, the injustice of what's going on, and so those little erosions that happen in the home are hitting on this collective experience, so it's maybe a frustration for you in that moment, but it's activating something that we feel collectively, so it's activating that sacred rage that we feel about the injustices being done to women, to people's bodies, so I just, I, that really hit me when that came through for me the other day, that I think it was important to name here, is that part of what happens, and so in some ways I think it helps to be able to not have to hold it all by yourself, those things that are coming up to be able to go, this isn't just mine, which means that I don't just have to hold it alone, and we don't need to make it bigger than it already is. It's big, it's already big, and it's a piece of that huge experience that we're having, so being able to hold it collectively isn't about amplifying it for each other, it's about holding space for that experience and recognizing that it's all related. So I hope that recognizing it as such is helpful to be able to know that you're not carrying it by yourself, because it's just too big for any one person to carry, because it's collective. So, just like systemic problems require systemic solutions, not individual solutions, that level of impact isn't just you're not carrying it alone, you're carrying it with others, and you're also carrying to recognize that you're carrying it is kind of important, so to be able to to honor that. What are the ways in which you can honor that? And they're, they're women's circles. There's, you know, going out into nature to be with other women again, not to amplify it for each other, but to hold space for its existence, and I think that's really important. So, if your anger feels outsized of the incident, and your spouse is picking up on how that is outsized, recognizing that, well, yeah, it is outsized for this incident, this moment, but it's tapping into something so much bigger. So recognize that, hold space for that. Maybe even name it with your spouse. I'm gonna get to that part in just a second about like inviting into that conversation, because depending on where the two of you are at in that journey of recognizing the dynamics that are systems that have been internalized, that can be, it can be a tricky conversation, being uncomfortable conversation for everybody, so this is is a big topic, I'm not going to get to everything in this conversation, so if you have things that you were like, well, what about this, or questions about that, please reach out to me. I have a link in the show notes, as always, where you can send me a voice message or send me an email message. I do love to hear from you, and I want to know what you're curious about, what you would like to dig into more. So, anyway, that was kind of the intro. I wanted to talk about the dynamics of sacred rage, understanding what that is, and we're going to talk about our own internalized norms, because we do have to recognize those before we can invite anybody else into the conversation with us in a way where it's actually an invitation and we're working together in collaboration versus just adding into the dynamics of our society, which involves shaming each other into action, which is just doesn't work well, so we want to remove the shaming part. So addressing our own internalized norms, resourcing yourself, and setting boundaries- boundaries is a huge topic. I have other episodes where I talk about boundaries, but if you would like more on that, let me know on. But I will link those in the show notes as well, and then tools to invite change to bring in, you know, the long game understanding, and how do we collaborate a little bit better? So that's a lot, so we'll see, we'll see how this goes, but again, I invite you into letting me know what questions you have, what you would like to engage further. So, let's talk a little bit about our own internalized stuff. Those little pings of frustration are invitations to explore our internalized stuff, because you're a match for somebody, and you work in relationship because you have patterns that are shared, they relate to each other, and so, whether it's you suppressing your feelings about something and not engaging the conversation, or just cleaning up the mess, just doing the thing, because it's not worth the conversation, that's part of playing into the dynamic that has been set, so looking at those places where your patterns are playing together, this is not to place blame, this is not to say that you're responsible for your partner's behavior, just want to be really clear about that. And we can't change other people, we need to look at where we have power, and that is over our own behavior, and there are reasons why we continue to do the same things like I said at the very beginning. It's a lot of work. Sometimes it's like I don't have the bandwidth to engage that I do not have the bandwidth to carry the emotional load that I'm gonna end up carrying if I make you uncomfortable, and that is one of the really strong underlying currents in a relationship, in a heterosexual relationship, where the woman is carrying the emotional labor, and so we don't want to give ourselves more emotional labor, and making our spouse uncomfortable is a place where we'll carry more, and so much of how we're conditioned to operate is in making them comfortable, or more to the point, avoiding their discomfort, and I say this as someone who really had to do a lot of work unpacking that, I always thought that my avoidance of his discomfort, especially like around the kids, I got to protect the kids from his discomfort, I've got to protect him from feeling uncomfortable because of the kids' behavior, and I was like, oh, this is this is tied to like growing up in a home impacted by alcoholism, and don't upset dad, because that doesn't go well. He doesn't handle emotions well. Well, it's not just, it's not just alcoholism. Men are not given a lot of support to navigate emotions, and I'm not gonna get too far into this, but we are also in a society which is working really hard to reduce the discomfort around frustration tolerance, like we're eroding our frustration tolerance with all of these things right at our fingertips, where we don't have to wait, we don't have to have patience, we don't have to work, not, and I don't mean like we are overworked, but like to like really think about something to like reflect on something, and we're also deeply conditioned around being a good person and wanting to be seen, perceived as a good person, and I'm using air quotes for anybody just listening to this around, good, because we don't want to be a bad person, and more, air quotes, because of what that means about us. This is ties into the fixed mindset thing. The more our stress response is activated, the more we fall into those barren binaries of good and bad, and I made a mistake, I am a mistake, kind of feeling, and there's a lot of that energy right now, so whether it's something you believe in or not, recognizing that it, it, we're kind of swimming in it, so it's really hard not to have that influence us in some way, so stepping out of the good person, bad person, and more into how can I be a better person? Like, what? What do I need? What is the dynamic present? Why is that here? What's going on that? What is this supporting for us again? I think overall. All of this is adopting a curious mindset. If you can engage curiosity at some level, and you feel the tension, what is going on? Where am I feeling this in my body? What activated that response? Like, really, just.. I mean, I can throw all the questions at you. That's part of what I do, is ask questions. It's harder to ask questions when I'm sort of talking to myself here, but curiosity, like in what ways could you get curious about what's going on, and that naturally starts to open up some doors, you're not always going to see all your internalized norms until they're called out, until you're faced with them, until you feel that frustration, and you're like, oh, there's something here. What is here? What's happening? What is my part in what's happening? And again, it's not to say that it's your fault that he is or isn't doing something that activated your frustration, but looking at what am I doing in response to that, am I avoiding it, am I shutting that down, or am I engaging it, am I speaking up to it, there's a lot of studies that are showing how much our bodies are breaking down because we're not speaking up, because we hold it back, we don't show up to that conversation, and it goes somewhere. If we don't engage it, it goes somewhere in our bodies, it's creating inflammation, it's creating disease and illness because we aren't engaging it now. That is not to say that we should start yelling and screaming all over the place, not that that doesn't happen when you start actually giving yourself some room to have the feelings, and it's important to know that it doesn't have to come out like that. What it does come out like is okay. What do I need, and how do I want to show up to that need, and what is that relational need? So this ties into resourcing yourself and knowing what your boundaries are and when we talk about resourcing, making sure that you have space, that you have supports, and supports not just looking like your friends, who are amazing, like they will ride or die, you know, like we ride at dawn, all that stuff, right? Like, those are you, we love those people, and we don't necessarily want to amplify the feeling, unless it's necessary, because you are in a relationship that you need that kind of support to pull you and bring you up, lift you up, and help you find a way out, because I do want to recognize that there are sometimes times where you're gonna, you're in a place where the other person that you're with isn't gonna show up to that conversation, they're gonna shut it down, they won't hear it, and that doesn't work, and I've worked with people who had to take a look at that for their own wellbeing, of like I have invited this conversation, I have done what I can, and I've set my boundaries are, and for me to be accountable to my wellbeing and to the boundaries that I set, since they aren't willing to honor those boundaries, then I have to be accountable to those boundaries, and I have to remove myself, or I have to do something. I need to take a break. I need to do something different for a minute, or for longer than a minute, depending. So, when I say resourcing, it's giving yourself the space to check in to ask those curious questions. What's going on here? What is my part, and what is my part is not about blame. Again, I just.. I want to reiterate that it's not about blame, it's about recognizing where your power is. What is my part tells me where I can do something different if what is currently happening isn't working, so not about blame or shame, beating yourself up or doing any of that stuff that we are conditioned to do when we think about what's my part, but to say this is what I can do, this is where my power is, my part is I'm not speaking up. My part is I'm not holding my boundary, I'm stating my boundary, but then when the other person isn't honoring that boundary that I stated, I'm not staying accountable to my boundary by going, okay, well, if. This doesn't work, then I have to do this, because this boundary exists for a reason. This is the reason, and so I need to still honor that reason, even if you can't do the thing that I need you to do, for us to be in relation with each other. Okay, you know that's a lot, and it's pretty vague, because it really depends on the individual. This is where coaching comes in, as we work on what is that, what's going on there. And sometimes we can do that for ourselves, and sometimes we really need someone who can hold space to help us dig into those places. So that's a big piece of what I do, alongside the bigger goal parts, so getting curious, we're gonna go, we're gonna backtrack, knowing that our anger, our frustration, air quotes, is often when it's tied to something that is the patriarchal norms, it's tied to a sacred rage that it's not only yours to carry, and it matters that you're feeling it, that is an indication that there's something there. So, taking a look at where your power is. What is mine? Resourcing yourself, what is mine? What do I need to support myself doing something differently, and knowing, okay, what is the boundary I need to put in place to care for myself and my needs, and then staying accountable to that boundary. That's the hardest part. That accountability piece is the thing that we tend to outsource, that we really can't outsource, because often when we are outsourcing it, it's tied to a people-pleasing dynamic where other people actually aren't going to stay accountable to it, because we're not willing to hold that accountability, and it's ours to hold, because it's our boundary that's the hardest part, and then we let it go, that's not worth it, it's too much, so it's too much that matters, it's a lot, we're carrying a lot already, and so change is uncomfortable. Who's supporting you? What resourcing do you have? Can you get a little bit more sleep? Can you drink a little bit more water? Where can you just take a moment for yourself, and I really mean a moment that does make a difference, a deep intentional breath, a check-in, going outside and looking at nature, and going, "Wow, look at life. Any of those ways that we can resource ourselves and our well-being, and connecting with a friend, connecting with a professional who can support you, having spaces where you can be in that space of holding that sacred rage together. Those are all important. Okay, so we're doing that work, and again, it's, it's emergent. It is not a one and done. Oh, I learned about the patriarchy, I learned about internalization, I learned about these things, and now we're done. No, sorry, I'm sorry. I wish we're that easy. We're swimming in these waters, and so there's always new fish to notice, so now finally, in terms of your partner and their behavior, is it fair that we're often the ones to notice the things and call them in? No, would it be nice if they were doing the work themselves? Yes, and some of you may have some people in your life who are doing that. A lot of us don't. I have an amazing spouse, and we're all super busy. He has started doing his own work, but it took me initiating those conversations and saying, hey, I'd like to talk about this, which is also different than saying, can we talk, can we talk, I need to talk about this now, so this is where some of the tools come into play, which I think are important coaching tools. These are things that I've learned to use in coaching, and the power underneath them, and they are very useful when it comes to relational things too. So, the first thing is, if there's something that you're like, I need to have this conversation, I am ready to. Gage the uncomfortable conversation. There are ways to make that easier, and to invite collaboration instead of trying to control his behavior, which activates shame. Anytime somebody's trying to control your behavior, oftentimes there's a, there's an activation that happens there. So to be able to invite collaboration is really helpful when you have somebody who will show up to that. Sometimes it takes a minute because we're so conditioned to have that I'm doing a bad job, I'm a bad spouse, I'm a bad father, I'm a bad whatever, like that activation is so on the surface that so when you, you scratch the surface of it, that may be the first thing that activates, giving an opportunity for it to sink in is really key, knowing that when you scratch that surface, that response might be right there. And again, you can have a boundary around, I'm not the person to process that response with. Let me know when you are done with that stress response, that that can be a boundary that you have. Hey, let's find you a therapist that can be a boundary that can totally, I don't have the capacity for that. You're allowed to say, I don't have the capacity for that, and recognizing that that isn't about how much that person cares about you, it's what they do after that that will show the initial stress reaction is something that happens, and so if we can allow space, not necessarily hold space, if you're someone who has the capacity, you've really resourced, you can hold space for your partner to have a reaction, cool, do that if that feels okay for you. If it doesn't, allowing space is different. That's going.. I'm going to take a break from this. I'm going to go do something else, and we'll come back to this. I see that you're upset. I'd really like to talk about it. I'm going to give you a minute. Oh, I just remembered this other thing needed to happen, so I'm gonna go take care of that. We'll talk about this later. When is a good time to talk about this? So, those are some things that you, you can do to allow space for that initial, like, ooh, there's salt in this wound, because that's what it is. It is a wound. These dynamics are wounds to our relationality. So, squeezing some lemon juice, or I really shouldn't say lemon juice, was the healing like putting hydrogen peroxide on it, like to help it heal, to clear out the the germs and everything that it stings, it stings, but that's important for the healing process. Well, we're going to take a minute, we're going to take a minute before we put on medicine on it, or whatever. Okay, so that's my little analogy for that. So then it's inviting the conversation, so knowing that there's that, and then there's I'd like to talk about this. When is a good time for you? If you want, you can be a little softer, maybe you're really feeling this out. Are you willing to have a conversation about what's going on, and you can even frame it as like I'd really like to talk about what's working and what's not, like how what do you need more of, and what do I need more of in how we support each other. I want to be intentional about how we do things in the home, and it's really easy to fall into just what you grew up with, what I grew up with, and then there's friction, and it's not working well, and so just recognizing that so many of these things that we do are patterns that we learned from our families of origin, from society, from how our friends behave, like there are things that we've internalized that we don't think about so bringing intentionality to it and opening the door to that, so this is an invitation. One of the things that we learn in coaching is that it's important to invite somebody to ask for permission to get buy-in on something before proceeding, because if you just jump in, it can feel like an attack, because that person didn't say there's the consent piece, right? I didn't consent to this conversation. So, asking one of the things I will do oftentimes is ask, How would you like me to show up to this? Yes, would you like my thoughts on that to be able to get the yes, because if you don't ask it can feel like force helping, whereas if you ask and they say yes, when somebody says yes to the conversation, they become more open to receiving because they said yes, because they consented to it. So they consented. Now they're open. It's like opening a door, it's like knocking on the door, and they open the door, and then we can talk. So asking before jumping in, and then again, depending on what it is and what's going on, proceeding sometimes it helps to have a more structured process, depending on what it is. So this is something that I help people with the specific dynamics of it, and whether it's with a spouse or a colleague or a friend or client or a boss, like whatever it is, like these are the sorts of relational dynamics that I'll support with. I do have a resource about it's a partner alignment workbook that you can get, it's pay what you can, what you feel is appropriate. On buy me a coffee, I'll have a link in the show notes, but basically it works you through a more robust approach of, okay, say you want to start that conversation of how we operate in the home and what's working and what's not working. What do we want to change and do differently? So, starting with a vision, what do you want this to be like? What do you want your home experience to be like? How do you want to show up with each other? What are your values when it comes to the home? And then coming together and having that conversation, and so I have a little guide on, like, having that conversation, such as, and I'll just share a little bit of it to support you, so recognizing it can be emotional again, that initial scrape of when you realize, oh, we're not in alignment right now. Oh, you're not happy with this. That can feel really uncomfortable. It can activate your stress response. So, having done a little work on your stress response is really helpful. I have a sweat, a stress response quiz to help you recognize what your like kind of service level stress response is, and what supports you when you're in stress. It's a free short little quiz. You don't even have to give me your email to, like, get the answers, and that'll be linked in the show notes. If you want something more robust, I offer something called the Energy Leadership Index Assessment that goes into depth about how you show up in what life as it's going normally in under stress, and that can be a really helpful resource for understanding your patterns. I've done this with couples before, where we do one, we do both separately, going through the patterns, and then we do a joint session where we talk about, okay, how might you be interacting in a way that is activating your stress response, how can you support each other better, knowing what works for you? And then you also have a framework of shared language to support each other with, which is super helpful. So, I have a discount on that, but when this releases, it's going to be like today, so reach out if you're interested, we can chat about what, what would be accessible for you. With that, it's not my assessment, by the way. This one is something that's a little bit bigger, but I've done it with business partners, and I've done it with relationship partners, romantic partners, and it's always really helpful to have that insight. People found it really supportive, so anyway, knowing what your stress response is, knowing that it's emotional and things may come up, it might look like disappointment, confusion, frustration, defensiveness, it might not even be recognized as emotional, but you're you're judging the other person and what they're sharing, you know, instead of being curious about it, so just noticing that both of you noticing that I think it's helpful to have that kind of laid out ahead of time, like, hey, we want to make sure that this is a really supportive conversation for both of us, here's what we can do to make sure that we're recognizing that these dynamics are present, or they might be present, and how we're gonna make sure that we're, we're both working together, because we, this is what we want, and that's key, is that you both want to work together, and you're both willing to show up again. Buy-in helps with that a lot, and then knowing that sometimes these conversations can be activating that quote unquote good feeling of, you know, I'm a good person, I'm a good holding this role of spouse, of father, mother, of like all of those things, know that it's normal, it's normal to have places where you're not aligned, that's gonna happen over time, so it's not even.. it's just.. it's just life, it's just life. And then, particularly if you haven't done this work before, it can be even bigger deal. And then working on some forgiveness, self forgiveness, forgiveness of your spouse for having an emotional reaction, which is a normal thing, but if their emotions feel like an attack to you, then you're taking their emotions personally, and a lot of times their emotions are tied to their programming, and it's not about you. Again, these are really big concepts, and they're not easy. So, having the resourcing to yourself to be able to navigate it, and inviting your partner to do the same, can make a big difference, and it depends on the levels of challenge you're having, what level of support you need. This may be just not sufficient, and maybe even coaching is not sufficient, and you actually need therapeutic support of how do you move forward, because there's too much activation of internalized stuff, of past traumas, of whatever, knowing that is an important piece, and then some guidelines are also listed of things like as you share, talking about having one person speak at a time, like being really present. I'm going to share first, I want you to really listen, and then you share and I'm going to really listen, and then we can talk together. These are basic mediation kind of tools. Give up the need to be right or wrong, and be curious instead. I know there's curiosity again, and ask questions to clarify. What did you mean by that? You said this thing, so recognizing again when you have that initial reaction, emotional reaction, and you're taking it personally. Your stress response is activated, knowing it's not personal. This is about them. You're gathering information. Sometimes that information is that this person is not a good match anymore, and that's hard, and sometimes we might have a sense that that's what the conversation is going to reveal, and so we avoid it because we don't want to see it, and that's understandable. It's also really detrimental to your well-being. The last episode, where I talked with Heather Vickery, she talked a little bit about that experience for herself, so knowing that it's important to show up, and this is a way for you to know how to move forward. If you're feeling stuck at all, and just constantly drained, toleration, the trajectory of it is never - it gets better. It's just, it's never that it gets better. If you're just tolerating it, if you invite in the conversation, you might be surprised. Someone I spoke with recently, as we talked, and I shared a little bit about this framework of inviting in the conversation, she tried that and let me know that it was easier than she thought it was going to be, and it went really well, so you might be surprised, but the longer you wait, the harder it gets, the more entrenched we get in our patterns, the more activated we get when we start to try and shift them, and the harder it can be to rebuild a way forward, that's not to say it can't happen, it can totally happen, and your well-being matters. Stuffing it down, it doesn't just go away, it gets stored in your body. So I invite you to invite in the conversation with yourself, with your partner, and know that whatever information comes forward from that, you'll be able to do the next thing, the next indicated thing, because you have new information. If we don't have new information, we just keep repeating and doing the same thing over and over again, so I hope that this is helpful for you, and if you have questions again, I know in a lot of ways this is a big, big topic, and I did a lot of talking at you, and it's just a lot, and I think it's important for everybody involved, because it really does help the well-being of all of us when we start to give people the opportunity to step into a better relational version of themselves, better relational version of ourselves, and we stop enabling behavior that is eroding our well-being. So, if you have questions, please reach out. If I can be of support to you in this process, I'm here for that. You are so welcome to schedule a free exploration call and see what kind of support will fit for you when we look at what you are looking to create and what is accessible for you in terms of time and budget, and I will meet you where you're at. So don't hesitate to reach out. I am here for you. I've got some really cool guests coming up in the next episodes, so I can't wait to share them with you, and I will talk to you all next time.